The Lady or The Tiger?

[Shen]

The story of The Lady or the Tiger was one my father was fond of telling me as a child. It always had a strong impact on me. Here is a summary of the story (from wikipedia):

The semi-barbaric King of an ancient land utilized an unusual form of administering justice for offenders in his kingdom. The offender would be placed in an arena where his only way out would be to go through one of two doors. Behind one door was a beautiful woman hand-picked by the king and behind the other was a fierce tiger. The offender was then asked to pick one of the doors, without knowing what was behind it. If he picked the door with the woman behind it, then he was declared innocent but was also required to marry the woman, regardless of previous marital status. If he picked the door with the tiger behind it, though, then he was deemed guilty and the tiger would rip him to pieces.

One day the king found that his daughter, the princess, had taken a lover far beneath her station. The king could not allow this and so he threw the offender in prison and set a date for his trial in the arena. On the day of his trial the suitor looked to the princess for some indication of which door to pick. The princess did, in fact, know which door concealed the woman and which one the tiger, but was faced with a conundrum - if she indicated the door with the tiger, then the man she loved would be killed on the spot; however, if she indicated the door with the lady, her lover would be forced to marry another woman, a woman that the princess deeply hated and believed her lover has flirted with. Finally she did indicate a door, which the suitor then opened.

At this point the question is posed to the reader, "Did the tiger come out of that door, or did the lady?" The question is not answered, and is left as a thought experiment regarding human nature.

_______________________________________________________________________________

This story came to symbolize my father. I never knew who I would see when he came through the door.
More recently, the story has been absolutely plaguing me. I realized that it symbolized me (in my mind) as much as my father.

I've been going over it in my head, trying to make sense of it. The thing is, I don't think of the tiger as the "bad" guy. In fact, I think the twelve-year-old part of me that has always been in charge of anger IS the tiger.

I had some new realizations about it today. See if this makes sense:

What I learned from the "lady":

She is waiting behind the door to marry whoever opens it. She is nameless, needless, and only there to serve others. She will do as she is told.
The message is that when a girl grows up, she will be "given" to a man and it will be her job to serve him in whatever capacity he chooses.

What I learned from the "tiger":

The tiger can't lose. If the man opens that door, the tiger will take care of it's own needs, eat, and live to wait in the room again for another day. The tiger is strong. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that the tiger will win if that door is opened. The tiger is blameless. It is expected that the tiger will do what it needs to do to survive.

It isn't too surprising that I didn't want to be the lady.

The other lady in the story is given a horrible dilemna. She is in love with someone, but her father - who has complete control over her life and the lives of others - does not approve. He puts the man she loves in a room with the two doors. The woman knows which door holds the lady and which holds the tiger. Does she give up her lover to a "beautiful woman" who will marry him so that he will live "happily ever after" (because apparently it will not matter to him that he has made this switch - one lady is as good as another) or does she direct him to the hungry tiger and watch him die before her eyes?

I definately want to be the tiger.

[workinprogress]

wrestling with my own conundrum.

wondering if there's a third option, " the door in the floor " ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv50xrsFNdU

[Shen]

wow
that video is intense. Thank you so much for putting up the link.
When I watch it, I feel everything I felt on the retreat - when I was doing my "soul declaration" about my father. It was so much like that - the essense of that -
wow.

[Shen]

Yes, the video was quite intense. (I was kind of hoping for some response to what I had written... )
I think you're right, Ilene. I think it is possible to heal without forgiveness.
I also think if you can get to the place of forgiveness, that is even sweeter.

[IleneW]

Yes, Shen.

Forgiveness is a wonderful, sweet state at which to arrive.

It's ideal.

I just worry when I hear the statement that we CANNOT HEAL until we forgive.

In my experience, that's not the case and since forgiveness can't always be achieved by the flip of a switch or an intellectual decision, I felt compelled to observe what I did, in response to the video. In response to your feeling that the thread was "side-tracked," I've deleted that observation ------ because I care.

[IleneW]

For the record, I have forgiven just about all the primary abusers who've traveled my journey with me.

So when I state that I worry about the premise that healing cannot happen without forgiving our abusers, I, personally, speak from a place of forgiveness. But I've spoken and worked with people for whom, on the day we spoke, forgiveness was elusive. Despite that, I hold firmly to the belief, that healing for those souls, was still truly happening and would continue to happen. I believe that possibly, those souls could someday arrive at forgiveness. But even if they didn't, they had still progressed from a place of devastation through recovery and towards increasing health and happiness.

Now ---- regarding the video -----

(Shen ------- I'm not sure if you meant that you experienced the scenario we watched in the video or what happened preceeding your soul declaration was similar enough, if not precise. . . . . )

it must be a powerful experience to have an abuser actually sit and be told the painful impact of what their abuse has caused, and be effected by it deeply enough to express remorse.

It's not something I've ever experienced.

I imagine that it makes the path to forgiveness a smoother journey.

I would wish the scenario portrayed in the video, to be the case, for all injured by another.

The only professions of remorse I've heard uttered, were not genuine, but in the service of manipulation and damage control. I've forgiven them anyway.

I'm not sure if I've touched on what was hoped for, but it's the best I can do, given my own personal strengths and weakenesses.

Love and blessings to all.

I.

[Shen]

I agree with all that was said about forgiveness. It's a good thing, but not always possible and not required.
I'm sorry you deleted your response. that wasn't what I wanted. I was just hoping someone would respond to the lady and the tiger.
Maybe it is clear to me and not to others. Sometimes I am kind of out there, I know.

The point of the lady and the tiger stuff that I wrote was that so much of the old literature was geared towards men. Even though the "princess"s feelings were mentioned, they were not considered important enough to the king to put them first. The lady behind the door was a non-entity, an object to be given to someone.

My feeling is that we hear this kind of thing a lot, as children. Both men and women take something away from stories like these. The message that a woman is something to be given or taken away is driven into us on a subconscious level.

I didn't see that it had anything to do with forgiveness, and I honestly still don't... I'm not sure where that came from, so I would honestly like it if the connection could be explained to me. I often miss obvious things in literature, despite the fact that I am a writer. I think very concretely and miss nuances in things even if I am able to put them in my own work.

To me, I always imagined myself in the place of the man, with the choice of the two doors in front of me.
But I'm not a man, and a lady would not be a reward...
So I tried (in my very concrete way) to figure out what other meanings this story has because it has been so prevelent in my thoughts and dreams all my life. there is something there that seems important.

That's why i said I want to be the tiger. I don't want to be the man with the hopeless conundrum. I don't want to be the princess with an awful choice to make and controlling father. I don't want to be the lady who waits behind a door to be given to whoever opens it. I know I am not the king - I could not and would not be the controlling king.
So, I guess I have to be the tiger.

[workinprogress]

i better pipe up, since i'm the one who started this whole idea of forgiveness in the first place. so let me try to unwrap what my original point was, & how it might relate to this story.

"the door in the floor" is a motion picture. i never saw it. the music playing in this video was the reprise from that movies score (which i also had no clue of where it came from, but had to look up). also, this video clip has nothing to do with the movie as well.

i put the two together because i had just watched it the day before, & i was reminded of the words "the door" in the video clip, at the same time while i was reading the dilemma of "the door(s)" in the story.(probably coincidental).

this story of the king introduces not only the difficult dilemma of choices confronting the man, nor yet even just the difficult choice in the princess's hands to determine the outcome of the destiny of this mans life, but the whole reason that these two folks were forced into making these very difficult choices in the first place, was primarily due to the "responsibility" of the king to dispense justice.
(you know, as a side note, if deep down the man knew that the princess already knew that he had flirted with this lady, & had the 'hots' for her, i'm sure he would have smiled supremely to her nod, & would have chosen the opposite door instead! hehe)

so, to me, this story is about many things:

do we see our lives as something beyond the control of our own choices ?

do we say that our lives are what they are because of the choices that others have made ?

do we then say that others bear the "responsibility" for what we do not choose for ourselves ?

do we justify our own behavior based on the decisions of others ?

how does our perspective on justice really play into our own need to make sense of our own guilt or innocence ? (ex. the tiger is "blameless".)

the connection i was trying to make with forgiveness, is that when it comes to judgement, especially when someone is deemed guilty, the king was the only one in the story, & the only one who had the right (or authority) to change everything. & that could only be brought about through the very act of forgiveness.
(i'm not trying to change the story, but that's the one thing that came to my mind, for whatever reason).

in terms of forgiving "offenders", as this man was deemed in this story, there is a true life story that comes to mind.

in the book "choosing mercy" (by anoinette bosco) she tells the heartbreaking story of how her son & daughter-in-law were both murdered in their own home by a young man, & the very difficult decision she made, but ultimate freedom she found, when she brought herself to the point of forgiving him.(i did not read this book, but it was recommended by a friend)

i think it's different for everybody. everyone needs to do what they have to do to in order to be at peace with themselves, & with others. (whatever it takes for them). as was the case for the woman who penned those words in her journal in the video clip.

like the tiger, whose interest is to "take care of its own needs" & "will do what(ever) it needs to do to survive", we also have this basic instinct to do whatever it takes in order for us to survive.
& we must still be able to live with those choices we have made, whatever they are, & accept responsibility for those choices.

no doubt, the decision of others does affect our lives. some of which we have control over, but some of which we do not.
even though sometimes it may not be clear to us, we still are motivated by our own sense of justice or fairness.

do we seek to do the thing that is honorable ? & at what cost ?

are we always only seeking to prove our own innocence ? & why ?

these are only some of the questions that swirl in my head, that this story brings to my mind. (which i of course do not have the answers to ! lol)

in my opinion though,(just my opinion), the thing that would appear as weak, feeble, unstable & insecure, such as forgiveness, could not possibly happen, but only through the power & strength of a tiger !!

[IleneW]

Good stuff!!!!!!

Thanks, workinprogress.

[Shen]

Yes, thanks workinprogress.
I am still digesting what you said.
Thank you for taking me seriously enough to reply to what I wrote. I really appreciate it.