your shadow

[workinprogress]

i'd like to know whether anyone has ever heard of this, & whether or not it can influence the presence of abuse in our lives.

for example, if you have poor boundary issues, does this imply that you are more likely to attract other people into your life that are most likely to violate those boundaries ??

i'd like to know what anyone thinks.

thanks !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvV6Dswp ... r_embedded

[IleneW]

Hi workinprogress -----

You always bring us interesting things.

I've heard Debbie Ford and her Shadow Work.
There's much of value in her concept and presentation.

Let me address the rest of your post. You wrote:
if you have poor boundary issues, does this imply that you are more likely to attract other people into your life that are most likely to violate those boundaries ??

In my perspective, almost every problem boils down to a boundary issue.
Look at all the problems you encounter in the next week, and see if any
can be attributed to something other than a boundary issue.

Second, YES . . . . . I do believe that if we have developed into adulthood
with boundary injuries and issues, others ----- who ---- by the way ----- also
have boundary injuries and issues ---- will perceive those injuries and be drawn to you.

For instance, if you have developed into adulthood with people around you saying
that you, "couldn't be nicer!!!!!!" then it's super-likely that an offensive boundary-
violator will sniff that tendency out and get you to attach yourself emotionally to
them. . . . . BECAUSE. . . . . a person who "couldn't be nicer," may well be a superduper
"people pleaser" at the expense of their own self-care and their own healthy boundaries.
This is the perfect set-up for the boundary-violating abusive predator.

So then you have a relationship between a self-negating people-pleasing couldn't-be-
nicer person (potential victim). . . . . . and an offensive, boundary-violating, using/
abusing predator who's thrilled to have a victim to exploit. The potential victim,
intent on pleasing everyone, doesn't notice that they've become the "blood source"
for a life-sucking, boundary violating user ------ until they've become weakened from
the depletion of their life force, and it's almost too late.

What do you think?

[workinprogress]

yes, i see your point. & i think its easy enough to see that pattern.

but what is curious to me, is the notion that, rather than someone 'sniffing you out', or others being 'drawn to you', as though you were a bleeding fish in the midst of shark infested waters; the shadow concept seems hold out the idea that unless we come to grips with our own 'dark side', we will never see the ways our response to it either compels (or constrains) our behaviour in negative ways.

like it almost exposes or illuminates our propensity to either hide from it or avoid it altogether.

i don't know. i never read the book or heard the whole story. but it almost seems to indicate that whatever it may be that we are hiding from (or most afraid of), may offer to us more of a benefit (& an advantage) than what we might otherwise believe.

[IleneW]

Yes. Exactly!!!!!!!

This is why I'm loathe to use the term, "our dark side."

That feels to me perjorative, which is much more likely to stigmatize it.

I prefer to call that side of us our wound or injury.

And somewhere along the line, I heard the phrase:

The strength is in the wound.

I believe that totally. I know that personally, it's true for myself.

In my opinion, there are very few things that are totally good or bad.

Look at things like fire. Fire has given us the means to be warm in
cold climates, and to cook our food. That's fire being "good."
Fire out of control can burn down your house, consume your
worldly goods, and maim or kill you. That's fire being "bad."

That's pretty much true of anything, including almost
all of our emotional wounds.

It's good to be nice to people. It's not so good to be
nice to people at the total expense of our own self-care.

It's good to have confidence in our ability, in the world.
But sometimes what first appears to be confidence
turns out to be arrogance.

Getting back to the terminology of shadow or dark side. . . . .

Yes. Absolutely. Unless we acknowledge ---- maybe even
embrace that side . . . . . . yes . . . . . acknowledge and
tenderly embrace the injury ------ we have little chance of
addressing it and healing it.

Thanks for your observations.

[Shen]

I've heard this question asked about a hundred times at CoDA meetings. Yes is always the answer.

The video is very cool. It sounds like another name for what I've called the "hole in the soul" and another approach to inner child work, but for many calling it something else is part of what they need.

Did you answer the questions? I did. I did not get a surprise. Maybe if I had looked at this three years ago I would have, but therapy has already exposed most of my shadows.

I believe my best quality is compassion.

[workinprogress]

the only surprise i got, was hearing (around minute 5 of the clip) that the OPPOSITE quality of the thing i esteem most, turns out to be the thing that's suggested will turn up the most, however unwanted or unsavory.

why ? does that has something to do with projection ?

i once heard that whenever we project our worse fears, its like a self-fullfiling prophecy that will most likely come true, based on own perceptions, even though we may be unaware we are even doing it.

[IleneW]

Addressing what work wrote:

[1] the OPPOSITE quality of the thing i esteem most, turns out to be the thing that's suggested will turn up the most, however unwanted or unsavory.

The is the dynamic of polarity. Pretty much, everything exists on a spectrum.
Either end of the spectrum is generally less stable than the middle of the
spectrum. Picture a see-saw, and you'll understand that the middle, of course,
is the balance point. Either end of the see-saw flies up and down. If you're
seated on the balance point, you stay in one place, while the riders seated
on either end are getting a verticle ride from the ground to the sky.

I’m about to explore a scenario from a particular framework. I understand
that some things I’m about to say don’t jive with the framework of the way
twelve-step programs work. My intent is not to bash any 12-step programs
or anyone for whom the 12-step framework has been a successful path to
recovery. What I’m about to describe comes from my graduate-work
training in family systems therapy. And so. . . . .

Let's say we come from an alcoholic family-of-origin. Maybe there are three
children in this family. One of the kids decides s/he really hates what alcohol
has done to the family, and becomes a tea-toteler ..... abstains from alcohol
completely. This person has made this choice because of a disgust with
alcohol. S/he prides themself on never drinking at all, ever. Her/his decision
has been made because of having seen the dark side, the shadow side of
alcohol. But since this position is an extreme, a kind of either/or, drinking
too much or not drinking at all, this person is overall, potentially less stable
psychically, than if they he or she had taken a position to drink socially, to
enjoy a glass of wine occasionally or to celebrate something. (If this person
has made the decision to not drink at all based on soemthing other than a
disgust, but rather a positive choice, than this tends to be a more stable
position.)

It’s probable that one of the other children has followed the family dysfunction
Into some degree of dysfunctional alcohol consumption. The third child will
have likely followed one or the following paths. S/he may have avoided drinking
too much alcohol, but often uses or abuses some other substance or activity. Less
likely but possible is a third (or fourth) child who through some piece of good
circumstance or fortune, has seated themselves on the balance point of the
spectrum, and is living a healthy, balanced life.


[2] whenever we project our worse fears, its like a self-fullfiling prophecy that will most likely come true, based on own perceptions, even though we may be unaware we are even doing it.

This is based on the dynamic that whatever we focus on, whatever we invest
our energy on will materialize and increase. If we invest our energy on something
we fear, then that point of focus will materialize and increase.

If we fear that we’re shy socially and focus on that feeling, then when we’re interacting
Socially our focus on the possibility of looking awkward will increase the likelihood
that we’ll feel self-conscious. Lo and behold! We end up coming off as stiff and
awkward which will reinforce our anxiety and fear that that’s what we are, which
will make us even more shy.

If an abuser has the paranoid suspicion that his/her partner is out in the world
messing around, and he/she follows up on that fear by checking phone and facebook
and following our partner around or calling and texting every ten minutes. . . . . it’s
extremely likely that the object of that paranoia will eventually either reach out to
someone outside the relationship out of pain and frustration ---- or leave the
relationship altogether.

Yes/no?

[workinprogress]

the see-saw does kind of work in some regard. some people will gravitate to the middle out of a desire for safety & control i suppose, while others would rather 'give it a go' & hold on for dear life !

of course i take that a little out of context, but on the other hand, wouldn't it be somewhat similar to the challenge of 'rising to the occasion' in an attempt to master our own fears ? (i wonder if that's where debbbie ford leads you).

back to your statement "almost every problem boils down to a boundary issue". is it safe to say then that the alhaholic family-of-origin issue, is really more all about a boundary issue ?

[IleneW]

In regards to what work wrote ----

I only have a minute right now, so I'll
write more later today. But, yes,
the alcoholic dysfunctional family does
boil down to boundaries as the primary
issue.

As I said, I'll be back on-line later today.

[IleneW]

Back again.

Okay, so . . . . . . .

earlier, workinprogress wrote:

the see-saw does kind of work in some regard. some people will gravitate to the middle out of a desire for safety & control i suppose, while others would rather 'give it a go' & hold on for dear life !

of course i take that a little out of context, but on the other hand, wouldn't it be somewhat similar to the challenge of 'rising to the occasion' in an attempt to master our own fears ? (i wonder if that's where debbbie ford leads you).

So, now . . . .

I chose to use the see-saw metaphor to address where something may fall on a spectrum. Within my framework, the center of the spectrum is the balance point. The balance point in general, offers moderation and stability, whereas the ends of the spectrum, or the seats on the see-saw, are typically intensely one way or another. In general, being intensely one way or another yields situations that are extreme. Extreme situations are harder to navigate. Situations that are more balanced are generally more navigable. The Buddha, after investigating all kinds of extremes which he thought might lead him to insight and enlightenment, ended up advocating,
"the Middle Way."

As for work's second paragraph, I'm not an expert on Ford, so I couldn't say where it is her premises are meant to lead the reader. But for myself, when I look at a position on something, I do best when I ask myself, "Is this position extreme or balanced? Let me look at this position taken to it’s outer limits. What are the implications of those extreme positions?”

Anyone who’s followed my theories for awhile knows that some of my positions are forceful in certain ways. Often this has been helpful. Sometimes, I admit, that it might be enlightened of me, if I really look at those thoughts to see if perhaps a more moderate stance would produce better results.

In regards to Ford’s concept of searching out your “shadow,” I think her paradigm holds value, based on the premise that the opposite side of anything might be extreme.

And also, if we’re invested in a particular position it might mean that we’re fearful of not being seen to be holding that position.

For example, we’re all probably familiar with how some guys who are seriously invested in looking masculine have a secret fear that maybe their not inherently masculine “enough.”

Or someone who’s compulsively particular about cleaning might be fearful that if they sat down for a day and didn’t clean something, that their whole life would quickly go to hell in a wheelbarrow.

Anyway, those are some thoughts on worksinprogress’s thread.