should I stay or should I go (about my therapist!)

[mariposa]

Hi everyone,

I've been away for a couple of months and have been reading all of the posts that I've missed. I am amazed at how robust the conversations have been. It was really nice to read all the threads. In particular, I appreciated the "shadow" thread and I hope to go back and watch the video later. I have a feeling that I it might be relevant to my current personal challenges.

I am actually doing much better emotionally, but worse physically. I have been taking some medications with some seriously soporific effects and basically have been eating, working and sleeping. It's ruined the plans that I had for myself this summer, but that's what living with a chronic illness is like. I'm trying (really hard!) not to get too upset about it.

I have a question for everyone out there. I've wanted to ask it for a while, but both my physical situation (illness) and my fear have prevented me.

I really like my therapist. She's been incredibly supportive and I've learned a lot from her. (My ability to analyze behavior - both my own and others - has greatly improved.) Here's the thing: she never ever once said that my ex was emotionally abusive. Not that she in anyway supported or accepted his behavior and in fact, she was wonderful at interpreting his individual actions. The word, abuse, however, never left her lips. It was only through reading an article about the first Twilight movie and the emotionally abusive behavior of the lead male character that I discovered that my ex was emotionally abusive and that his behavior fit an established pattern. (That was six months after the relationship ended.)

About 10-11 months after it ended, I started reading about narcissism at the behest of my sister. I found that while the ex does not have NPD, he is currently residing (or at least was when we were together) in the unhealthy end of the narcissism spectrum. This was the last piece of information that I needed and really helped to clarify the behavior that was not explained by the information about abuse.

When I asked her the first time why she did not label him abusive, she said that she thought that I knew. I answered with a resounding "No!". I knew something was wrong, but I did not believe it was abuse. When I asked again later (I think when I brought up the narcissism info) she said that I had not presented it in a way that lent itself to that diagnosis. I did not say anything at the time, but have thought about it. Honestly, I believe that I did present his behavior in a way that could have been interpreted as abusive and the onus was really on her to parse my monologues and figure out what's going on. If I knew the answer, I would not be there.

Part of me feels that had she labeled his behavior while we were dating, I might not have stayed as long. Or possibly that I might not have taken so long to heal. I KNOW that this is pure conjecture and there is no way to ever know. But it would have been nice to know sooner rather than later.

I've continued seeing her, but I have lost serious confidence in her. I don't look forward to our sessions. Has anyone had this experience before? Did you stay or did you leave?

mariposa

[IleneW]

Hi mariposa ----

Welcome back.

I have found that unless there is physical battery, many if not most therapist
don't call what's going on, abuse.

And ---- in my opinion ---- if your therapist had made a mental call on what
was happening, the onus was on her to share with you what she'd discerned.

I had been to many therapists, individual and couples counselors. None
used the words, either abuse or emotional abuse. I didn't get it figured
out till I was already separated and I was reading Patricia Evans first book.

It's an unfortunate state of affairs that clinicians have so little grounding in
this, in general.

In any case, glad to have you back.

[Shen]

My experience with my current therapist was different from what I'm hearing here. I wrote out a seven page "life story" as I knew it, before our first appt (about three years ago).
At that first meeting, she had read the entire seven pages (sent through email). She pointed to the very first thing on the list and said "this right here is enough to tell me that you were neglected." Then she pointed to the second thing and said, "You were an abused child. Has anyone told you that before?"

There was no physical abuse listed in these pages.
The first thing on my "life story" was about my father leaving for a year when I was a few months old. He took a trip around the world by himdslf...
the second thing on the list was a telling about how my father repeatedly told me not to speak or cry. I was two years old at the earliest memories of this.
The third things she pointed out to me, and labeled as abuse, is my father telling me "When people find out what you're really like, they will turn against you."
She does understand that emotional abuse is abuse.

In my opinion, it may be more a matter of semantcis than of actual judgement about your past. She may not be used to using the word "abuse" in conjunction with things that are not physical. If this was me, I would ask her, directly. Do you believe emotional cruelty is abuse? I might also find a good article about emotional abuse and ask her to read it to get her reaction. Its unlikely that she takes the things that happened to you lightly... but if she does it might be time to find a therapist who really does understand the dynamics of what has happened because if she can't understand that, how can she understand what you're going through now?

I had to switch away from my first therapist - and it was hard. I ahd a lot of gratitude for things that had worked out well with him. However, at a point when I was just barely beginning to trust him and begin to open up about the more physical and sexual parts of my past abuse, he walked in one day and told me he thought I was "cured."
this indicated that he was not taking me very seriously.
So, as difficult as it was, I found another therapist and it has been the best decision I could possibly have made. With C I have been able to do things, say things and be things I never thought were possible.

good luck

[IleneW]

Hi Shen ----

There are really good therapists.

There are also therapists who are grounded in emotional abuse.

I'm so glad that you happened upon one of those.

Sadly, in my work overall, I hear about more therapists
who are NOT thoroughly grounded in emotional abuse.

Speaking for myself personally, I've had around ten therapists
over the course of time, as individual therpists. They were all
caring and for the most part, they were good clinicians. But none
of them ever used the term abuse, let alone emotional abuse.

As for the couple counselors . . . . . . . they were a
pretty sad lot, even the PhD.

I am always encouraging people to seek out a truly qualified
therapist, in the hope that they actually will.

You out there who've found someone, (as you have, Shen),
are gloriously fortunate. I hope survivors out there in need
give the search for one, a chance.

[Shen]

I truly do know how lucky I am - and it is hard to find the right therapist. I believe it is worth the effort of searching until you find a therapist that works for you.

That said, I also need to say that when I have lost confidence with my therapist- either because of a belief she had or because of a misperception I had - I have talked to her about it.

It isn't easy. I don't like confrontation, and to confront someone who helps me so much is even harder - there's so much to lose. I can tell you, however, that every time I have had an issue with her and talked to her about it, I have come away feeling a hundred times better, and we have managed to resolve things that felt unresolvable. What I'm hearing from you is that you need an affirmation of your experiences - and that you need it from your therapist. If something needs to change in order for you to get what you need from this relationship, the only way that can happen is if you tell her what you need.

[IleneW]

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CreativeWoman]

The individual counselor I had been seeing was the one who said to me one day as I told him about an incident between my then-husband and me, "That's verbal abuse!" THAT was the very first time I had any realization that it was indeed ABUSE that was going on. I knew something was very wrong, but didn't know what. Interestingly enough, several years before that day, on the day I first met and talked to that counselor, I asked him "Do you think it's possible for another person to be toxic to you?" and he said no. Several years later HE was the very one to identify the hell I was living in was in fact abuse.

As for another counselor, while I had appreciation for and personally liked the couples/marriage counselor my then-husband and I went to, I think it was wrong of this one to insist we never speak the word "abuse" in counseling sessions, as it passes judgment...I think that viewpoint is foolish and downright dangerous and also it validated my then-husband's abuse!!!

I think Shen's advice to you is right on. How are things going?

[IleneW]

C.W. shared some experiences in couples counseling. One of them was:

I think it was wrong of this one to insist we never speak the word "abuse" in counseling sessions, as it passes judgment


The couples counselor said this because of the typical training for couples counseling.

And THIS IS WHY I'm so fundamentally against couples counseling for partners in an abusive relationship.

There are some limited situations in which couples counseling may work. Almost none of this short list of situations in which couples counseling might work extend to situations of abuse.

Because I don't think it's appropriate to say always or never, I'm not going to say that two people, even two people in an abusive relationship, will never be helped by attending some kind of therapy together. . . . . . . . . . but doggone seldom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the case, C.W., of your couples therapist who forbade the word "abuse" in session . . . . . that was in the service of non-escalation in therapy session. That would be fine in a relatively functional relationship. It's absolutely appalling in the context of an abusive relationship ----- which is why, in my opinion, typical couples counseling is so totally wrong for abusive relationships. (It was for mine and also for many, many others with whom I've worked.)

[CreativeWoman]

Ilene, about what you said in your last paragraph, when the word "abuse" was forbidden and of course talking about abusive things Art had done also "passed judgment,"...it totally validated Art's ridiculous delusion that he was NOT ABUSIVE, and that I was wrong and judgmental to imply that he was an abuser and had ever abused. It was sickening. It was like a pat on the back and an "attaboy" for Art to continue what he was doing, and it was like a slap on my hand as if to say "bad, judgmental wife, shame on you--I need to protect Art from your judgmental and critical accusations!" I even remember that counselor telling Art, "You need to learn how to defend YOURSELF, at home."

As the weeks of those sessions went by...I started out hopeful that the counselor would help us and that there was hope of Art coming to his senses and cutting out the abuse, but further into "therapy" I used to sit there and have mild panic attacks; I used to hyperventilate, get tongue-tied, not be able to speak without getting very nervous about being judged myeslf for being "critical," and sometimes I'd be so "shell-shocked" from what I was hearing there (blatant validation of Art's abusive viewpoint) that I'd be somewhat just, well, literally in SHOCK. Art and the counselor appeared to think there was something wrong with me and that the problem was ME.

Another thing I was encouraged to do there was to "sit with it, tolerate the uncomfortable feeling, don't judge--just accept it for what it is without passing judgment..." It was ridiculous BS. Nowadays, I see the counselor was just plain wrong with all that stuff, but I don't believe he made things worse for me on purpose--he honestly meant well, couple's counselling is just WRONG in abusive situations. You'd be better off not having counselling together at all, but going to an individual counselor yourself, for anyone who's being abused.

[IleneW]

Oh my gosh, CW.

That was such an artculate and powerful post. And most of all (and worst of all!!!!), it's totally appalling.

It may be true that there might be mention of emotional abuse in the textbooks used by people training to be marriage and couples counselors. But I don't think any useful tutorials are given on identifying emotional abuse, and then safe and effective interventions.

And that's why for the most part, I advocate AGAINST couples counseling for relationships that are emotionall abusive.